4E Power Build: Non-Orb Orbizard

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:59 am

All right, for people wondering why I think Orbizards or variants thereof amount to cheating, here's an example build built for constant, unceasing stunlocks.

Saving throw penalties have honestly gotten out-of-control. This wizard doesn't even need the Orb of Imposition Class feature to throw down a stunlock on anything short of solos--it's just there as a bullshit bonus. And it's not like this wizard is even epic or halfway levelled-wizard; he's only level 11, or the equivalent of a level 6 or 7 character in 3E.

L11 Gnome Wizard / Phiarlan Phantomist
Orb of Imposition
Stats: STR 9, CON 11, DEX 14, INT 21, WIS 19, CHA 14
While this character could've started with a 20 in intelligence this character was build for the long haul--which means in Epic it'll pay off when Wizard Implement Mastery and Nightmare Wizardry can be snagged once you sneak into Epic.

Feats:
Gnome Phantasmist: Gives you a +1 feat bonus to attack and damage rolls (+2 at level 15, +3 at level 25) when you use powers with the illusion Keyword.
Implement Expertise: Staff: Gives a generic +1 bonus to attack rolls (+2 level 15, +3 L25) when you use the quarterstaff.
Enlarge Spell: Take a -2 penalty to damage per die to increase the size of a burst or blast that rolls damage by 1.
Phantom Echoes: Gain CA against a target if you hit them with an arcane illusion power until end of next turn. If power has an effect that a save can end, it lasts until they make the saving throw. Trivially creates a feedback loop with Illusionist Gloves.
Arcane Familiar: Choose the Disembodied Hand. Lets you stow and retrieve items as a free action. Vitally important since we're going to be wielding two staves and still want to use our Orb of Imposition Feature. Orb of Imposition bizarredly does not require you to be wielding an orb when you originally layered on the power that had the saving throw. So you can use the staves to impose a huge saving throw penalty, stow your Cunning Staff and get your orb as a free action, use Orb of Imposition as a free action, then stow the orb and retrieve your Cunning Staff as another free action.
Spell Focus: Gives us a -2 penalty against creatures who try to make a saving throw against wizard powers.
Mark of Shadow: Completely useless to the build except for the fact that it gets us into the EXCELLENT Phiarlan Phantomist PP. Here are the features:
L11 Phantasmist Action: When you blow an action point to take an extra action, you or an ally in three squares of you becomes invisible until the end of your next turn.
L11 Mind Fire: Any enemy affected by one of your charm, fear, illusion, or psychic powers takes a -2 penalty to saving throws against that power's effect.
L16 Phase-Mist Shroud: Whenever you use an illusion power, gain concealment and a +1 bonus to attack rolls with charm, fear, illusion, or psychic powers until the end of your next turn.
L11 Encounter Disturbing Visions: Burst 1 illusion damaging that slides target two squares and causes them to take a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
L12 Utility Taunting Decoy: Who cares? When we buy a +3 Mnemonic Staff this baby is going to be continually recycled into Extra Faces of Death/Visions of Ruin.
L20 Daily Phantasmist Stalker: Psychic Summoning Power that as a close blast 3 dazes enemies in a burst. Su-weet.

Magical Items:
+2 Earthroot Staff (grants a -2 penalty to saving throws against attacks that immobilize, slow, petrify, or restrain; doesn't need to be wielded. This goes in the hand that holds the Spiked Shield, since the FAQ confirms that you get the properties of implements held in your shield hand)
+2 Cunning Quarterstaff (grants a generic -2 penalty to saving throws for powers used through this staff)
+1 Mnemonic Staff (lets you swap your useless level 2 utility power for a level 1 daily)
+2 Mnemonic Staff (lets you swap your useless level 6 utility power for a level 5 daily)
+2 Cloth Armor (this character is sort of a glass cannon)
+1 Mage's Spiked Shield (later on when we grab spiked shield proficiency this will be upgraded to a +1 Rhythm Blade Spiked Shield for an extra +1 to AC)
Phrenic Crown (Heroic Tier): Gives a -1 penalty to saving throws from powers that attacked will. Which happens to be nearly every illusion power.
Skull Mask (Heroic Tier): Grants a -2 penalty to saving throws for fear powers. Also gives resist 5 necrotic. Swapped out with hand.
+2 Talisman of Terror (grants a -1 penalty to saving throws when used on fear powers)
Illusionists Gloves: Grants a -2 penalty to saving throws for illusion powers against characters who you have combat advantage against. A feat you own creates a trivial feedback look.
+1 Orb of Fickle Fate (Daily Power, forces targets who are making saving throws against powers that target will take two saving throws and take the lower one)
Curse-Eye Tattoo: If you blow an action point the enemy takes a -2 penalty to saving throws (save ends)

Powers:
At Wills:
L1 Phantom Bolt: Illusion power that slides an enemy one square.
L1 Nightmare Eruption: Another illusion power that deals INT-mod psychic damage to any target adjacent.

Encounter Powers:
They all suck. Wizards don't start getting good encounter powers until level 13. This wizard does have Maze of Mirrors (illusion which immobilizes in a burst) and also has Grasping Shadows (illusion which slows in a burst, auto-minion killing power).

Daily Powers:
L1 Flaming Sphere/Sleep: Natch. At level 2 your Mnemonic Staff will give you a bit more versatility for these spells.
L5 Grasp of the Grave/Visions of Avarice: Visions of Avarice is a persistent illusion that pulls and repeatedly immobilizes (save ends). Grasp of the Grave creates a huge auto-damaging and dazing zone.
You can also grab Stinking Cloud if you want, too, which does a lot of damage for no reason and blocks line of sight in a huge area. At level 7 you'll have another Mnemonic Staff for more goodness.
L9 Face of Death:

Utility Powers:
L2 and L6: Who cares? This is getting recycled into the Mnemonic Staff. I picked encounter utility powers that can be used outside of combat.
L10: Illusory Wall: It's odd that this is a utility. It creates a wall that blocks line of sight and movement for enemies (but not allies) that they can only attempt to penetrate once a turn--you make a vs. Will attack at +14 when most enemies of this level have a will save of around 20. So it's a really solid control power all told.

Saving throw penalties:
Generic: -4
Will Saving Throws: -5
All powers that immobilize: -6
Will Powers that immobilize: -7
All Illusion Powers: -9
Illusion Powers that Immobilize/Slow/Petrify/Retrain: -11
Fear-Keyword Powers: -12
Fear Powers that Immobilize/Slow: -14
Orb of Imposition: Additional -4
Curse-Eye Tattoo: Additional -2

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:33 am

Um... So?

That's hardcoredly specced from all sorts of books.

The existence of OVER 9000! Save reducing items doesn't have anything to do with characters that don't use more than 4000 of them.

Like, a Deva Wizard or something who uses spells that aren't necessarily always illusions. Might not have all the specific key word focused stuff.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:04 am

Well, firstly, Wizards has been heavily pumping their damn Character Builder. Dumpster Diving doesn't really work as a 'you won't see this in a REAL' game excuse anymore since PHB feats are posted right next to lame-brained Dragon #372 feats.

Secondly, except for the Disembodied Hand familiar and Dragonmark Feat and PP, all of the material this build used was in the PHB, AV, AV2, and Arcane Power.

If Eberron is too 'out there' for you the character could just replace the Dragonmark feat with the Invoker Multiclass feat and take Hammer of Vengeance PP, both from the PHB2. That way 4/5ths of your material would be considered 'core'. That PP also hands out a -2 penalty to saves. I just wanted to keep with the Illusionist Theme.

Kaelik wrote: Like, a Deva Wizard or something who uses spells that aren't necessarily always illusions. Might not have all the specific key word focused stuff.

But Illusion is the best keyword to specialize in if you want stunlocks. There are a handful of stunlocks that don't use illusion (most notably sleep, which has the most useless keyword in the game) but I'd say more than half of the good wizard stunlocks have the illusion keyword.

Besides, the Gnome Phantasmist feat eventually adds a +3 feat bonus to attack rolls at the end of the gnome's career. That should be more than enough argument to make gnomes the master race for orbizards.

souran · Post by **souran** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:51 pm

Lago,

You are very good at building characters but I have never seen one of these characters arise naturally through play, or through generating high level characters.

Obviously the fact that you have built them means that its not impossible to do so, however, they all have this punpun feel to them. Yes, there are broken combos, and your defiantly expert at finding them.

For real, do your players actually generate these kinds of characters as they play? I reallly am curious.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:00 pm

For real, do your players actually generate these kinds of characters as they play? I reallly am curious.

I have a player in one game who is aiming towards a Pit-Fighter Ranger (at least I assume, since they have heavy armor proficiency and pumped wisdom) and another player who wants to be a Healic Laser Cleric.

You have to understand, in 4E you don't get real ultimate power through level advancement or class features or cobbling together weird rules in 3E. The majority of your power comes through magical items.

A level 12 Stormwarden Ranger can lay down some serious ass-whupping. Like taking out monsters herself in one turn. But without her Bloodclaw Bastard Sword, her Frost Bastard sword, her Siberys Shard of the Mage, her Iron Armbands of Power, her Boots of Eagerness, her Backlash Tattoo, and her Reckless Spiked Gauntlets she wouldn't be anything special even though she would still outdamage other strikers. The ranger in my group doesn't have quite that level of mojo, but she's already making the big steps--2 Reckless Bastard swords? Check. Iron Armbands of Power? Check. Nothing but minor-action encounter attack powers? Check. She hasn't discovered Spiked Gauntlets yet but I'm sure she'll be clamoring for some once she does.

The laser cleric is searching for everything that will increase the mojo of her Astral Seal. A +2 Healer's Armor is a bit out of her range but she went without a neck slot item at all for awhile just so she can get a +2 Healer's Brooch. She also has a +2 holy symbol just for the Healer's Implement feat and a +2 Mace of Healing. I'm glad she hasn't figured out she can dual-wield those things. She was also tickled pink to discover the Artificer/Potent Restorables combination and asked for a rebuild.

I'm going to have to put my foot down at the former at one point but I and the party are a bit too dependent on the Laser Cleric in the other game; I actually had to break out the bull-rush rules when she got her grubby mitts on Consecrated Ground and still no dice. Still, the other people in that game play shit like an assault swordmage with Improved Grab and a Darklock so they would have to fight even more below their level if she wasn't around.

souran · Post by **souran** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:08 pm

So, from what your saying you usually have 1-2 players per group who can seek anywhere near this level of optimization.

Thats basically what I have seen as well. Fortunatly my parties cleric is not the one who likes to optimize that much however, if my optimizing player did play one and wanted to do the unending stream of healing I would have to cut that off.

There was obviously going to be some power creep in 4e, however you shouldn't be able to get real healing without spending a healing surge on anything less than a daily power.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:02 pm

So, from what your saying you usually have 1-2 players per group who can seek anywhere near this level of optimization.

So?

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:06 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: You have to understand, in 4E you don't get real ultimate power through level advancement or class features or cobbling together weird rules in 3E. The majority of your power comes through magical items.

Yeah they did a great job of achieving that "less magic item dependency" goal they had.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:46 pm

+2 Earthroot Staff (grants a -2 penalty to saving throws against attacks that immobilize, slow, petrify, or restrain; doesn't need to be wielded. This goes in the hand that holds the Spiked Shield, since the FAQ confirms that you get the properties of implements held in your shield hand)

Can you give a citation for that FAQ entry, please?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:52 pm

You bet your ass I can.

3. If you wield a light shield, you can also hold an item as well, although you can’t attack with it. What if that item is an implement? Can you apply its implement bonus to your powers?

No. Using an implement to gain its bonuses is considered attacking with that implement. If you wield a light shield and hold an implement in the same hand, you would not get the implement enhancement bonus to your powers, but you would still benefit from any propertys [sic] that the implement has.

That takes care of the Spiked Shield Issue.

17. I am using a weapon as an implement, like a long sword for a Wizard of the Spiral Tower or a Quarterstaff as a staff implement, do I gain the extra damage from feats like Weapon Focus?

Yes, you do gain this bonus to damage.

That takes care of using a Cunning Quarterstaff (normally a weapon enchantment, not an implement one) as a save penalty-boosting implement.

20. Can a Warlock benefit from holding two rods?

Yes, a warlock can gain the properties from two rods but he still can only use one to make an attack.

That takes care of being able to use two quarterstaves at once. Wizards hold implement staves in one hand.

And just as a bullshit bonus...

29. Can you slide a target multiple times (by using a warlock's diabolic grasp or harrowstorm powers) into a wizard's wall of fire for iterative damage?

There are several factors to take into consideration here. First, a target must move into the wall's space—that is, moving into every square of that space does not inflict iterative damage. However, if a target moves into the wall's space, then back out, and then back in again, it will take more damage; but remember, entering each square occupied by the wall costs 3 extra squares of movement (which might be possible with a high-level use of a harrowstorm).

Yay for murder pinball!

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:07 pm

Thanks!

souran · Post by **souran** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:40 pm

Lago,

Thats cool but some of this is a tad cheesetakular.

honestly, the thing about the two staves is sort of thing they make penny-arcade cartoons about. Although, mechanically its no worse than any other combination of two impliments.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:51 pm

honestly, the thing about the two staves is sort of thing they make penny-arcade cartoons about.

Or you could just wield two staves and say you fight like Sauraman.

If that's too much for you you can take Arcane Implement Proficiency: Heavy/Light blade and grab your ass a Cunning Longsword. Then you can say you fight like Gandalf.

You actually probably want to grab light blade implement proficiency eventually anyway so you can take advantage of Nimble Blade.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:54 pm

I'm going to have to adjust my opinion of Visions of Avarice.

I dropped that spell in an online one-shot and it practically won the encounter for us. I didn't even use any saving penalty-boosters; you use this spell in a melee-heavy monster team and it allows you to rule even harder than Grasp of the Grave and Stinking Cloud.

My new nickname for this spell is 'Black Hole Bomb', because that's what it is, especially with some coordination from the party.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:17 am

Lago, a bit off-topic, but do you know of any mechanics that force an enemy to crit you, or allow an enemy to more easily crit you? I need it for a masochistic warlord build.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:28 am

Lago, a bit off-topic, but do you know of any mechanics that force an enemy to crit you, or allow an enemy to more easily crit you? I need it for a masochistic warlord build.

It would seem that making yourself take on the helpless status would do the trick.

If Obi-Wan Kenobi can do it then your character can, too.

Mind, be very careful about critical hits in this game. It's generally a really bad idea to invite critical hits against enemies wielding weapons, especially bladed weapons. Enemy damage spikes tremendously on crits.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:31 am

Mind, be very careful about critical hits in this game. It's generally a really bad idea to invite critical hits against enemies wielding weapons, especially bladed weapons. Enemy damage spikes tremendously on crits.

Doesn't work. The idea was that my warlord would use Brash Assualt, and take a crit - which allows the fullblade fighter to get a mark basic attack, and then an auto-crit from brash assualt due to some feat I can't remember, and then allow every ally to get some basic attacks on them, too, due to a tattoo. Overall a REALLY risky move, but worth it I think in certain situations.